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Pokemon Tournament
Topic Started: Feb 27 2011, 04:09 PM (10,988 Views)
Doom
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2011 TREZ Pokémon Tournament

Hosted by Yatterman-2 aka Torchman

Rules written by Saberman

Entries Begin: February 28, 2011

Entries End: April 13, 2011 (will be extended if there are not enough competitors)

Round 1 Begins: April 19, 2011 (6 days given to give the host(s) time to prepare the brackets)

~Tournament Rules~
-All battles will be fought 6 on 6 Single Battle style using Pokémon Online, a battle simulator. The program could be found here: http://www.pokemon-online.eu/

*Regarding the Program*
1. Use the Team Builder to build your team. This program prevents ALL cheating, so illegal movesets or stats are not possible. Please keep and utilize all 510 EVs available. If you need help building teams as far as strategy goes, use this link to help you out.
2. Please create your Trainer using your current TREZ name to make it easy to recognize you.
3. A server will be created especially for TREZ to use for the tournament so non-TREZians cannot access the server. The name and password to enter the server will be posted shortly.
4. During EACH match in the tourney, AT LEAST 2 users must have Pokémon Online open, present on the aforementioned server,and select "Become a Spectator/Watch This Battle" and become spectators. These two or more users will be watching the battle to the end and observing the battle logs. This is to have a witness for disconnects and/or be rules consultants/judges (i.e., someone uses a Pokémon that they didn't register, use Gen. 5 stuff, etc.)

Banned Pokemon and Abilities


-Entrants may register two additional Pokémon (aside from their team of 6) to swap into their team between battles. If a competitor is caught using a Pokémon aside from the total of 8 registered, that competitor will be disqualified.

-There will be 32 total entrants in the tournament. If there is not enough it will be cut down to 16.

Final Notes:
Prize will be announced later on.
Please post any questions here. Post Entries in this thread using the following template:

Trainer Name:

Pokémon Roster (6):
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-
-
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-
-

Sub Pokémon (2):
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Participants
Glaceon is Love
Deleterious Serenade
Saberman
SurviveOdin
Yatterman-2
XxGaMeR718
Ablon
Edited by Doom, Apr 8 2011, 09:06 AM.
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Dramz
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Spastic Colon

Easy counters for Deoxys...Easier counters for Haxorus. If he gets Paralysed or sleepified, he isn't gonna live to wake up.
I do think Deoxys should be banned, but Haxorus is fine.
Edited by Dramz, Mar 23 2011, 07:32 PM.
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Saberman
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Haxorus definitely does have a weakness to status conditions, especially some of the new speedy Grass-types that have access to such moves.

EDIT: I just realized, if what I said is true, then why was Garchomp banned? Haxorus is definitely more powerful than Garchomp as well as quicker.
Edited by Saberman, Mar 23 2011, 07:34 PM.
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Dramz
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Spastic Colon

To be OP, Haxorus needs about 2 turns to set up, so you have time to switch out and bring in someone to counter him.

Also, the joys of Baton Pass...I won't say too much more.
Garchomp should be banned. He can learn Swords Dance...freaking scary. Dragon Dance, while it makes him fast, takes longer to set up. 90% of pokemon will die to Garchomp after 1 swords dance.

I do think that most Pseudo Legendaries are copouts though, for those who can't think of a better team member. Metagross can be used well though.
Edited by Dramz, Mar 23 2011, 07:37 PM.
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Saberman
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Haxorus can as well, however. He also has access to all the same moves Garchomp does. What then?
Edited by Saberman, Mar 23 2011, 07:36 PM.
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Dramz
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Spastic Colon

Haxorus lacks any defences, and will ALWAYS rely on physical attacks. Garchomps can pack some special attacks with power, and survive longer.
Garchomp also gets 2 types with STAB, where Haxorus is limited to Dragon, and there aren't a HUGE variety of physical dragon attacks:
Outrage
Dragon Claw
Dragon Rush
possibly something from Gen V I don't know about.
Dragon Rush is too inaccurate
Dragon Claw is my fav, but it does lack the power of the other 2
Outrage locks you into a combo, and you can't switch out when they bring in something that can resist dragon, like Steelix, or even cloyster (who can take advantage of Ice attacks).

Garchomp can pack a nice Earthquake, or Dragon Pulse, as well as stuff like Flamethrower which can be VERY dangerous. Not many things can 1 hit a Garchomp without an Ice Type STAB attack, and not many Ice Types can outspeed Garchomp, who can counter that with a nice, reliable Brick Break.
Edited by Dramz, Mar 23 2011, 07:43 PM.
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Saberman
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True, but he also falls to the same status condition counters that Haxorus does. Defenses don't matter. If he can't set up, he'll fall in two turns if not one due to his Ice weakness.
Also, Haxorus may have less versatility but his Attack and Speed stats are about 40 points higher compared to Garchomp, which makes one DD from him almost equal to a Jolly Garchomp's SD. Haxorus can learn Brick Break and a few other useful moves, as well as take advantage of the lethal Reversal combo.
Edited by Saberman, Mar 23 2011, 08:11 PM.
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Yes
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@Yatterman. Speed and Defense were left unbanned due to the fact that they die in 2 hits pretty much.
What are you guys talking about versatility on Haxorus (Brick break, NightSlash, OutRage, Dragon Dance. Got it all covered, really)? He was meant to be a physical sweeper. The point of Haxorus is to come in and set up a quick sweep. Thats all there is too it. Most haxorus users set up a dance and pull off 1 outrage combo. After that they don't care if their Haxorus stays or not, because 2-3 of the opponents pokemon fainted in the process. Garchomps defenses aren't that great either. 1 icebeam from a bulky wall (Swampert) brings down Garchomp like it was nothing. Garchomp does have support in attack and special attack, yes. But most people aren't gonna spread out their EVs to both areas, they'll only focus on one. On top of that most of Garchomps moves are easy to predict and counter. Oh my random electric pokemons out? Switch into one with levitate and counter. Oh I have a grass out? Switch into Flash fire and gain some Sp Atk off of the flamethrow.

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"All people fear the unexpected, the unforeseen, the unfair. It's nothing to be ashamed of. "
"There's only one thing real about this world and that's us! The players! Getting stronger and defeating others! That's the way this game is played!"
"Any tree can drop an apple. I'll drop the freakin' moon."
"Any sound can shake the air, my sound shakes the heart."
Search Squad
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Saberman
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That's what I mean, they're pretty much on the same level (if not, Haxorus is higher) but I needed to find some common ground to make the argument stay on the same plane.
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Dramz
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Spastic Colon

Saberman
Mar 23 2011, 07:45 PM
True, but he also falls to the same status condition counters that Haxorus does. Defenses don't matter. If he can't set up, he'll fall in two turns if not one due to his Ice weakness.
Also, Haxorus may have less versatility but his Attack and Speed stats are about 40 points higher compared to Garchomp, which makes one DD from him almost equal to a Jolly Garchomp's SD. Haxorus can learn Brick Break and a few other useful moves, as well as take advantage of the lethal Reversal combo.
Garchomp is pretty much immune to Paralysis, excluding Body Slam, and Stun Spore. Nobody who can effectively use Stun Spore is faster than him. Body Slam is unreliable for paralysis.
Hypnosis from a Gengar, or GrassWhistle from someone like Leafeon are too unreliable. It is much harder to inflict Paralysis, sleep or freeze on a Garchomp, due to his Ground type, and respectable speed.
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Yes
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You should look up Whimiscott. Its ALWAYS gonna be faster than Garchomp, and 90% of the time it carries Stun Spore.
Breloom and Smeargle also love having Spore on their movesets. And 100% accuracy is pretty good to put a Garchomp to sleep.
Edited by Yes, Mar 23 2011, 08:41 PM.
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"All people fear the unexpected, the unforeseen, the unfair. It's nothing to be ashamed of. "
"There's only one thing real about this world and that's us! The players! Getting stronger and defeating others! That's the way this game is played!"
"Any tree can drop an apple. I'll drop the freakin' moon."
"Any sound can shake the air, my sound shakes the heart."
Search Squad
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SurviveOdin
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Ok, i like this, we're now officially discussing Uber suspects;

First and foremost, You guys implied earlier that Gen V is broken, now that's just fine but since Gen 4, Pursuit will ruin all offensive Deoxys variants (bar the ultra rare SubSpike Deoxys-D which shouldn't be Uber BTW.), Haxorus and Garchomp....Skarmory counters them both perfectly, and gentlemen, do you propose Skarmory to be Uber for being able to stand up to an Ex-Uber's Onslaught (Yes, Max Physical Bulky Skarmory can live through a +2 Outrage and ruin it with Toxic and Roost Stall it to Death, or Whirlwind it away to rack up Spike damage.), as for Haxorus, anything that won't be 1HKOed by a +2 (Dragon Dance) STAB attack can ruin the sweep by either status or KOing, and Swords Dance variants can be revenge killed by QuickFeet Ursaring (which is NU.).

Now, i'm pretty sure that what i said above didn't clinch the conclusion so i propose we follow standard Gen 4 'stead? That and any Pokemon you guys believe should be banned, i don't really have time today so to say, I'll post the Ban List tomorrow.
Edited by SurviveOdin, Mar 24 2011, 12:05 AM.
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Saberman
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Let's try to come up with a definitive ban list soon. We should use Smogon's tiers as guides but I also feel we should try to make some of our own additions (which is what we've been discussing) due to the potential range of skill levels in this tournament, seeing as TREZ isn't known for competitive Pokemon battling.
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Dramz
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Spastic Colon

I don't know enough about MOST Gen V pokemon (I've looked up the interesting ones like Haxorus and the legendaries), so I can't speak about Whimiscott.

And thats why you need to use Garchomp as a turmp card, not just a sweeper like Haxorus. You should be able to produce someone on your team who is faster than Breloom, and has a flying type attack, or something strong against it. Smeargle should fall to one hit from Garchomp, and will be slower than him.

By the way, according to Bulbapedia (what I use as my resource) Garchomp has a base speed of 102, and Haxorus has 97. It is strategically sound to invest at least SOME EVs for speed into each, so the average Garchomp will be faster than the average Haxorus, and Garchomp can easily take out Haxorus in one hit. Garchomp beats Haxorus in ever stat but Attack, and its only a small difference. Both of them can learn an excellent setting up move, but if you brought out both at the same time, Garchomp would, most of the time, attack first, and unless the Haxorus is packed with HP and Defence EVs, OHKO Haxorus with Dragon Claw. If both were brought out, and for SOME reason, the Garchomp felt that this is a good time to set up, and use Swords Dance
a) The trainer is an idiot
b) Haxorus would get the chance to Dragon Dance, and then would be able to take out garchomp.

Breloom has very low Defence, and only 70 base speed. If you invest some EVs into Garchomp's speed and attack, you will be able to outspeed breloom, and 1 hit it with something like Dragon Claw. Like against Haxorus, this is NOT a good time to set up. Spore is dangerous.

Oh, and Smeargle is terrible, unless Trick Room is in effect, and he is being used as a support pokemon.
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SurviveOdin
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@ Saberman

I agree, but let's not rush it as we don't really want to leave a broken Pokemon unbanned.

Let's get started, shall we? Now seeing as you guys wanna go Smogon, here's a universal Ban List that i propose for the tourney, Please feel free to edit it.
Code:
 

Arceus
Darkrai
Deoxys
Dialga
Giratina
Giratina-O
Groudon
Ho-oh
Kyogre
Lugia
Manaphy
Mew
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Shaymin-S
Wobbuffet
Wynaut


Oh and here a few others that i think we should ban:

DrizzleToad + Swift Swim - 7 turns of Swift Swim is enough, but infinite? I think not.

Chandelure - Not really broken but with Shadow Tag, this can punch (or burn) holes in any team if the user switches in the wrong Pokemon..

Salamence - Utterly broken, this thing outclasses both Garchomp and Haxorus with the DDance set and everything else with the Wallbreaker set. All-in-all, let it set up +3 and even Groudon won't enjoy being hit by an Outrage.

That's all i got for now, any more proposals, gentlemen?
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Saberman
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Obviously, you're also going to want to ban the Gen. 5 title legendaries. They're pretty much Groudon and Kyogre revisited.

@Ablon: Garchomp really outspeeds Haxorus? That's unprecedented and news to me. I've been in competitive for a long time now, and ever since I've put Haxorus into operation a few weeks ago, I always thought he outsped Garchomp. Guess not.

Also, Smeargle is not as terrible as he seems. He's actually used quite often for Baton Pass teams as well as a multi-purpose Pokemon due to Sketch.
Edited by Saberman, Mar 24 2011, 12:39 AM.
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Dramz
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Spastic Colon

His Base Speed is higher, so yes, garchomp outspeeds Haxorus. His Speed is probably why he used to be an Uber, he outspeeds Mew and the equivalent legendaries too.
Salamence is quite broken, but my team packs an Ice attacker, so I can deal with him easily.

Remember kids: Iron Defence outdoes Dragon Dance any day.
Just pack someone with a +2 defence move, and then an Ice attack. make sure you bring it out quickly, preferably earlier.

EDIT: I was just playing Online random battles, and I lost to someone who only had a level 1 Cottonee....Prankster + Leech Seed + Substitute scares me....LOTS
Edited by Dramz, Mar 24 2011, 01:28 AM.
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Yes
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A lvl 1 cottonee? I've never seen that one. o3o I've seen a lvl 100 of its evolved form.
Posted Image
"All people fear the unexpected, the unforeseen, the unfair. It's nothing to be ashamed of. "
"There's only one thing real about this world and that's us! The players! Getting stronger and defeating others! That's the way this game is played!"
"Any tree can drop an apple. I'll drop the freakin' moon."
"Any sound can shake the air, my sound shakes the heart."
Search Squad
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Dramz
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Spastic Colon

Its evolved form serves a different purpose.
Level 1 means Leech Seed recovers it to full HP each turn, and it can have an unlimited supply of substitutes.
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Yes
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Woahhhhhh. Thats actually pretty broken. You can have what... 16 Leech Seeds? Switch out 16 times? xD I really don't know how to beat that outside of using a grass pokemon or extreme speed.
Posted Image
"All people fear the unexpected, the unforeseen, the unfair. It's nothing to be ashamed of. "
"There's only one thing real about this world and that's us! The players! Getting stronger and defeating others! That's the way this game is played!"
"Any tree can drop an apple. I'll drop the freakin' moon."
"Any sound can shake the air, my sound shakes the heart."
Search Squad
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Dramz
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Spastic Colon

Anyone with a priority move will be able to kill it in 2 turns, if he's already set up.

But yeah, it is broken.
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