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MMBN1 Navi Conversions; Overworlds in BN4+ style
Topic Started: Nov 29 2010, 05:19 AM (1,817 Views)
Khelder
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TREZian
So far, just MagicMan.EXE, but I'll be updating as I go.
MagicMan.EXE

{EDIT}
StoneMan.EXE

{EDIT2}
ColorMan.EXE

{EDIT3}
BombMan.EXE

SharkMan.EXE

SkullMan.EXE

PharaohMan.EXE

{EDIT4}
ElecMan.EXE

{EDIT5}
IceMan.EXE

I think that's all the BN1 exclusive Navi poses done. Now for either custom expansions, or the operators...
Edited by Khelder, Nov 30 2010, 12:39 AM.
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brianuuu
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Just the smaller version of the BN1 OW, nothing special.
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Khelder
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It's slightly more than that - it's resizing, sure, but then you have to clean up and fix the image (and fixing stuff is what I tend to be best at when it comes to spriting)

Here's a comparison:
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(The one on the right is before I cleaned it up)
Edited by Khelder, Nov 29 2010, 07:47 AM.
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brianuuu
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Like you said, it's just a resize, so it means nothing.
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Megaboy08
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brianuuu
Nov 29 2010, 08:40 AM
Like you said, it's just a resize, so it means nothing.
To you its nothing, but to him it means something. It might not be much but its still something of an accomplishment.

The way your comparing his sprites to nothing is the exact same way a Master Spriter can compare your sprites to nothing since its not fully custom, since your sprites are mostly C+P and slight edits. So pretty much its something in his level.

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Midnite
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You guys should zoom in. I see what you did, and it's well enough. But you can't really tell what you did just by looking at it.
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Doom
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If I may. I'm no spriter although I think I know how to best elaborate on the change from BN1 to BN4. Nice job though Khelder

Take two-four(more than one sample) navis that were in BN1 but also in 4-6. So you'd have

Fireman(TORCHMAN)
Elecman
Megaman
Roll
Gutsman
Glyde
Protoman
Numberman
Shadowman/Bass(gotta use the BN2 OW cus they have none in 1)

Now then, compare one of the above navis OW in BN1 and BN4-6(whateva game they are in). The first most obvious change is that they aren't simple resizes(however you did do a damn fine job on that, it could be a good base to start Bn4-6ing from)

From what my untrained eye can tell, BN4-6 sprites have a dark outline to them and arms/legs etc. Most likely black or a REALLY dark blue or brown.

Further more, it appears(based on comparisons of Fireman.EXE, Megaman, and numberman sprites) that the colours are a tad brighter(therefor possbily different colour and pallette), the shading has changed slightly or improved in some areas. The shadow is also changed in size. Some minor details (the indents on his head) are also left out, or are lesser detailed, while others do recieve more.

It may not be correct in most cases, or I might be using incorrect words, but that's generally what I've noticed.
Edited by Doom, Nov 29 2010, 01:57 PM.
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Spyman exe
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yeah
It's good, but I think the angle of BN1 OV's are a different angle compared to BN4. I looked at Torchman the angle is the same.
@Brianuu: Capcom did the same exact thing.
Edited by Spyman exe, Nov 29 2010, 04:58 PM.
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Saberman
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Brian needs to learn how to not jump to conclusions- this isn't as easy as it looks. Although, while this isn't the hardest spriting job in the world, you can't just resize a sprite and expect it to look good. And don't forget, aside from being a skilled programmer, Khelder is also a proficient spriter. Like I've seen, he's caught proportion errors in things that I, a pretty in-depth critic of sprites, couldn't catch. He even caught errors in map proportions. I think that he should post more of his custom stuff to prove this.
Edited by Saberman, Nov 30 2010, 06:48 PM.
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Spyman exe
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yeah
Okay, I admit, it's actually a pretty easy process. Each single frame would take me at least 5 minutes(small edits don't take too long). Counting all the sprites, that's about an hour.
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Khelder
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Yeah, that timing's probably about right Spyman. The hard part is just spotting how to fix the distortions - doing the spriting is easy. Of course, some parts have to be re-made from scratch (SharkMan's right foot, for example)

@Saberman: I'd love to post some of my Custom stuff, but most of that is work I've done for Chaos Network, so Krabz wouldn't be too pleased with me :P
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MegaRockEXE
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The BN4-6 sprites use more saturated color palettes as opposed to the gray palettes from BN1-3. I see you fixed some of those cases. Also, BN4-6 sprites use a dark PURPLE border around almost everything. In most cases, this outline is used instead of a darker color. I see like in your Pharaoman sprite that the edges get too heavy and dark. Lose the dark main color and use just the border to create a more seamless transition. It's also not a true outline, so don't feel like tracing around the ENTIRE sprite. It's not required.
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Khelder
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I put these on hold for a few days whilst working on some other non-spriting stuff, but did a small bit of work today. (100% scratch, for brianuuu's sake :P) Needs some tweaking, but I'm having trouble getting it to look right. Any suggestions?
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(I'm leaning towards using the one on the right to continue, but feel free to say which you prefer)

{EDIT} This is about as much shading as I can remove without losing the shape definition too much
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Edited by Khelder, Dec 4 2010, 06:18 PM.
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Saberman
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I think it's good. It stays pretty faithful to detail for a scratch sprite. The right one is definitely better; the left one looks sort of awkward in terms of pose. The shading on both of them is top-level.

Maybe you should try some EXE 3 Navis next. BeastMan comes to mind, as well as Serenade (the latter mostly because of this) FlashMan would also be an interesting update.
Edited by Saberman, Dec 4 2010, 05:09 PM.
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MegaRockEXE
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The perspective is way off. There is also excessive shadowing. Did you know the front-facing sprite has the least shading? Concentrate more on the shape and less on the blurring.
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Saberman
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mega rock.exe
Dec 4 2010, 05:19 PM
The perspective is way off.
What do you mean by this? Like the way the sprite is "facing"?
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Khelder
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He means, the head is tilted too far down, he's looking towards the floor. (The head's in 1/2 perspective, not 3/4 or isometric) When I try and fix it, he ends up looking too far up :(

{EDIT} Is this better?
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I must say, it's nice being somewhere where I can get decent criticism ^__^
Edited by Khelder, Dec 5 2010, 04:19 AM.
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MegaRockEXE
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I'm glad you're interested in learning. I still think the perspective is a little off. There is something you got to realize about the overworld perspective. It is basic axonometric projection. This means you should be able to fit the character into a cube that matches that perspective. If you added some sort of design to one of the cube's faces "in perspective", the same should be true for other shapes.

The problem I'm seeing is Magicman's coat shape, specifically near the bottom. This gives the impression that he is standing at an angle that does not match the MMBN overworld perspective. The shoulders also have a similar problem. "How much should be seen, and what part?" is the most important question.

I think you should study the perspective used in other Navi's facing down sprite and try to find out what they have in common. Try drawing a box around them to see if it makes sense. If you don't understand this step, I can make one because to be honest, I haven't even tried it. I just know it will work.
Edited by MegaRockEXE, Dec 5 2010, 07:58 PM.
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Saberman
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Khelder
Dec 5 2010, 03:20 AM
He means, the head is tilted too far down, he's looking towards the floor.
Ah, that's what I thought. I just didn't know how to explain it. And yes, MegaRock could provide quality criticism on this matter, he's rather well-versed in art and its various aspects.
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Khelder
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I'll give you the point about the shoulders, and I'll work on it when I'm on the right PC, but I'm going to disagree with the bottom of the coat.

I checked, and the perspective given matches the totems from TomahawkMan.EXE's link-quest (near the bottom here) It also matches the perspective of the trees in Green area. So, either the Navi's walk around the net at an angle the whole time, or I got that right...
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